LED lighting for SPS

[lukeluke]

Hello, I'm Italian (Rome), i have a Wave box Cube 30 these are the measures 11.82 x 11.82 x 13.79 inch.

Now i use a DIY 5 PL 18 W lighting, but i want to insert in my tank the SPS coral.

 

This is my tank:

 

 

Can you help me to project a new lighting for my tank ?

 

For buy LED i can use this site: http://www.dotlight.de/

 

THANKS A LOT

 

Bye

Luca

[evilc66]

If thats the only place you can buy from (there are other good LED shops in Europe), they I would suggest 8 of these and 8 of these in a 4x4 array with alternating colors.

 

For drivers, you will need four of these (two for white and two for blue so you can adjust your color temperature), and use two of these dimmers to control them.

 

You will need to use a 24v power supply like this to power the whole deal.

 

There are other options available, but you will have to look at other stores. LED-Tech.de is another good source.

 

You will need a heatsink for this project also. Try and find something that is as big, or just a little smaller than the perimeter of your tank. Ebay is a good source for cheap reclaimed heatsinks.

[lukeluke]

ok.

 

Do you think that 4 + 4 LED is ok for my tank with SPS ?

 

Can i do these by myself ? There's a DYI project ?

 

Can i use any kind of Power supply with this characteristics 100Watt, 24 Volt, 4,5 Ampere ?

 

Do you think that i need of these ?

 

I can buy on any source in EU .... can you help me to choose the right source, vendor and model of the LED ?

 

THANKS

[evilc66]

4+4 (8 LEDs)? No. You will need 4 x 4 (16 LEDs) for proper coverage.

 

There are some DIYs for drivers, but not with easy dimming capabilities. The drivers on that site are about the best option. You probably couldn't build them for much less than they are charging.

 

Any 24v power supply will work provided it has at least 4.5A capacity. And no, you don't need optics for this tank.

 

The Seoul LEDs I linked to earlier are just one option. Cree XR-Es and Luxeon Rebel and K2s are also other very good options. I'm not too familiar with other European vendors, but give LED-Tech.de a try.

[lukeluke]

you advise to buy these because with these i can dimmer the light ?

 

How i can dimmer ? Only with dimmer like these ?

 

If don't need to dimmer the power of the LED, can i buy these or these ?

The equivalent of non dimmerable costant current on the shop led-tech is these ?

 

How much LED i can power with these costant current circuit ?

 

Can i use these with these for put the LED on the heatsink ? I must buy 16 Star-PCB + 16 Heat-Conductive-Pads , right ?

 

THANKS A LOT FOR YOU PATIENCE !!!!

[evilc66]

I personally think dimming control is very important, especially if you do not have the luxury of being able to adjust the height of the fixture to change the intensity. Also, dimming control of the seperate colors allows you to change the color temperature of the light, letting you go from 6500K to 40K (all blue).

 

I had linked the dimmer module for the Konlux driver in my first post.

 

You will only need the star pcb for the LEDs if you don't buy them pre mounted. The LEDs I linked to before are already mounted, and LED-Tech has options for buying them mounted also. The thermal adhesive pads can work. Bolting the pcb to the heatsink is prefered, as it has better thermal transfer properties, but it is a lot more work.

 

If you use the fixed current drivers, the number of LEDs you can drive will depend on the driver. For the first one you linked to, it can take up to 40v input which would allow you to run 10 LEDs. You won't find many 40v power supplies though. 36v is more common, and will limit you to 9 LEDs. The second driver will take a max of 24v input and will let you run up to 6 LEDs.

[lukeluke]

You will only need the star pcb for the LEDs if you don't buy them pre mounted. The LEDs I linked to before are already mounted, and LED-Tech has options for buying them mounted also. The thermal adhesive pads can work. Bolting the pcb to the heatsink is prefered, as it has better thermal transfer properties, but it is a lot more work.

 

Ok, so the LEDs in this link are already mounted ?

 

If i don't use the thermal adesive, i must use this "Heat Conductive Glue Arctic Silver" so with this there is a thermal dissipation and the star is lock to the heatsink, rigth ?

 

If you use the fixed current drivers, the number of LEDs you can drive will depend on the driver. For the first one you linked to, it can take up to 40v input which would allow you to run 10 LEDs. You won't find many 40v power supplies though. 36v is more common, and will limit you to 9 LEDs. The second driver will take a max of 24v input and will let you run up to 6 LEDs.

 

The data sheet of Luxeon K2 led that you linked on the first say " Power Dissipation: 5,78 W (1500mA), 3,72 W (1000mA) " this is the watt ? So if i use this led i can attach 5 led on this, right ?

 

THANKS

[evilc66]

Ok, so the LEDs in this link are already mounted ?

 

Those LEDs are not mounted. The SSC P4 LEDs I linked to earlier are.

 

If i don't use the thermal adesive, i must use this "Heat Conductive Glue Arctic Silver" so with this there is a thermal dissipation and the star is lock to the heatsink, rigth ?

 

You can, but it's a far more permanent solution. At least with the adhesive pads you can remove the LEDs if they need to be replaced of moved.

 

The data sheet of Luxeon K2 led that you linked on the first say " Power Dissipation: 5,78 W (1500mA), 3,72 W (1000mA) " this is the watt ? So if i use this led i can attach 5 led on this, right ?

 

THANKS

 

Don't worry about watts. A watt is just a calculation of volts x amps. The K2 LED can run on anything from 350mA to 1500mA. The driver you linked can support anywhere from one to six of those LEDs.

[lukeluke]

You can, but it's a far more permanent solution. At least with the adhesive pads you can remove the LEDs if they need to be replaced of moved.

 

Also, how i can put the LED to the heatsink?

 

Don't worry about watts. A watt is just a calculation of volts x amps. The K2 LED can run on anything from 350mA to 1500mA. The driver you linked can support anywhere from one to six of those LEDs.

 

If i see another driver, how i can know how much LED can supply ?

Which is the parameters to see ?

 

Do you think that this power supply is ok ?

 

The auction say :

Output DC voltage - 15/16/18/19/20/22/24/26V (adjustable);

 

Output DC current - 15/20 volt 5A. 22/26 volt 4A;

 

THANKS

 

Bye

[lukeluke]

Also, how i can put the LED to the heatsink?

 

 

 

If i see another driver, how i can know how much LED can supply ?

Which is the parameters to see ?

 

Do you think that this power supply is ok ?

 

The auction say :

Output DC voltage - 15/16/18/19/20/22/24/26V (adjustable);

 

Output DC current - 15/20 volt 5A. 22/26 volt 4A;

 

THANKS

 

Bye

 

hello, can anyone help me to my questions ?

 

THANKS A LOT!!!

[evilc66]

For attaching the LEDs, it's already been answered. Yau actually replied to the answer. Either bolt it, epoxy it, or stick it down with the adhesive thermal pads.

 

The number of LEDs a driver can run is limited by the max voltage of the driver and the voltage of the power supply you use. The power supply you linked to has a max output of 24v, so you are limited to 6 LEDs (24v / 3.7v = ~6)

[lukeluke]

For attaching the LEDs, it's already been answered. Yau actually replied to the answer. Either bolt it, epoxy it, or stick it down with the adhesive thermal pads.

 

The number of LEDs a driver can run is limited by the max voltage of the driver and the voltage of the power supply you use. The power supply you linked to has a max output of 24v, so you are limited to 6 LEDs (24v / 3.7v = ~6)

 

 

excuse me, but i don't understand .

 

In your first answer you linked this . How much of this power supply i must buy for 8+8 LEDs ?? Three ???

 

THANKS A LOT

 

Bye

[evilc66]

You would need only one, but you would need three drivers. Lets see if I can explain this a little better.

 

So, to run LEDs you need a driver. The driver needs a power supply. The driver has a maximum input voltage that will set the maximum number of LEDs that it can run. With the example of the Konlux driver that was linked to before, it can take a maximum of 30v in. If you happened to find a 30v power supply, you could run 8 LEDs per driver (3.vf x 8 = 29.6v). Unfortunately, 30v power supplies are not very common, and certainly not cheap. 24v power supplies are much more common and very cheap. If you were to use one of these with the Konlux driver, you would only be able to run 6 LEDs (3.7vf x 6 = 22.2v), because the voltage of your power supply is now the limiting factor.

[sialkoti]

You would need only one, but you would need three drivers. Lets see if I can explain this a little better.

 

So, to run LEDs you need a driver. The driver needs a power supply. The driver has a maximum input voltage that will set the maximum number of LEDs that it can run. With the example of the Konlux driver that was linked to before, it can take a maximum of 30v in. If you happened to find a 30v power supply, you could run 8 LEDs per driver (3.vf x 8 = 29.6v). Unfortunately, 30v power supplies are not very common, and certainly not cheap. 24v power supplies are much more common and very cheap. If you were to use one of these with the Konlux driver, you would only be able to run 6 LEDs (3.7vf x 6 = 22.2v), because the voltage of your power supply is now the limiting factor.

 

 

It depends heavily on the forward voltage Vf of the LEDs you are using.

 

You cannot drive more than a certain amount of forward voltage with any particular voltage supply.

 

Example: If you have 3.2V LEDs four in series would add up to 3.2V+3.2V+3.2V+3.2V = 12.8V

 

Since this forward voltage sum exceeds a 12V supply very likely the LEDs would not even glow. The supply voltage has to exceed the sum of all the LED's Vf in series by a finite amount. Typically a 1V or so. This 1V would be called "head room" and is the voltage your driver(possibly a BuckPuck) would work with to regulate the current to whatever it's data sheet specifies.

 

This means that if you stick with your 12V supply and if your LED's Vf is 3.2V you would only be able to use three in series to leave some head room for the driver.

 

This means with 16 LEDs you'd need 4 drivers to provide the 4 x 4 LED strings.

 

This gets pretty pricey. This is why you want a higher supply voltage. A 24V supply would allow 24V/3.2V = 7 LEDs in a string.

 

 

Alternatively you can use a 32V or 48V supply as suggested. Now 32V/3.2V = 10 per string. BUT(!) you have to keep in mind the "head room" I mentioned and since 10 LEDs leaves NO head room you must use only 9 LEDs per string.

 

This goes on up in a continuing manner. Furthermore driver availabilities start topping out at these higher voltages and become harder to find.

 

Streetlights sometimes run 80 to 100V strings of LEDs. But they are an engineered device meeting special requirements.

 

So protect your investment in LEDs is to dump that 12V supply.

 

Get a 36V or 48V supply.

 

Look up the Vf for your LEDs and do the math I showed above.

 

Then get the number of BuckPucks you need to do the job for however many strings you arrive at.

 

This is the only way to properly protect and drive these more expensive high power LEDs

 

 

I hope this helps...

[deepdvnarq]

just remember that buckpucks have a max of 6 LEDs (of the 3w variety) run in series. so a 24v powersupply is the most that you will ever need. most power supplies put out more than what is stated. for example, the potrans 6.5a 24v powersupply actually is churning out 29.6v. plenty of head room

[Jacobnano]

Listen to Evil, he is the LED king*.

[lukeluke]

if i understand right,

 

i buy 8 white k2 + 8 royal blue LEDs

 

3 of this

 

3 of this

 

OK?

 

THANKS A LOT.

[evilc66]

Three drivers, yes. Three power supplies, not necessarily. The power supply has enough current to run up to four drivers at 1000mA. There is nothing stopping you from running three power supplies, but it's not required.

[lukeluke]

ok summarizing, i must buy :

 

- 8 white k2 alredy mounted to star

- 8 royal blue LEDs

1 of this

3 or 4 of this

 

OK?

 

THANKS A LOT.

[evilc66]

That'll work.

[lukeluke]

Excuse me for my infinite question....

 

I am very confused on the difference between the brand of the LED, which are the best ?

 

- Luxeon K2 with TFFC LXK2-PWC4-0200 without star 7,95 €

Lumen max.: 300

Kelvin typ.: 6500

mA max.: 1500 mA

Watt: 3,7 W

 

- Luxeon REBEL LXML-PWC1-0100 on star 6,89 €

Lumen max.: 180

Kelvin typ.: 6500

mA max.: 700 mA

Watt: 1,1 W

 

- CREE XR-E 7090 R2 on Star PCB XREWHT-L1-WG-R2 8,99 €

Lumen max.: 242

Kelvin min.: 5700

Kelvin max.: 6350

mA max.: 1000 mA

Watt: 1,23 W

Suppose that my project is 10 LEDs white e 10 LEDs royal blue.

 

Solution for the white LEDs :

 

1) Luxeon K2 without star

10 * 7.95 € = 79.50 €

with current at 1000mA i have 220lm (10*220lm = 2200lm)

3.7W * 10 = 37 W

 

2) Luxeon REBEL with star

10 * 6.89 € = 68,90 €

with a current at 500mA i suppose 150lm (10*150lm = 1500lm)

1.1W * 10 = 11W

 

3) CREE XR-E 7090 R2 on the star

10 * 8.99 € = 89.90 €

with a current at 750mA i suppose 190lm (10*190lm = 1900lm)

1,23 W * 10 = 12.30 W

 

Suppose that for my tank with SPS i need of 2200lm of white LEDs.

 

With Luxeon K2 the initial cost is 79.50 € , the consummated current are 37W, with 2200lm. TOTAL 79.50 € but i consume only 37W.

 

With the Rebel i cheap the initial cost (LEDs) and the consummated current, but i have 1500lm for arrive to 2100lm i must add 4 LEDs that cost 27,56€ add another constant current for 12 € and if i put the Lense, i must add 4 * 2€ = 8€ of lense. TOTAL 96.46 € + 12€ CC + 8€ LENSE = 116.46 € but i consume only 15W.

 

With the CREE the initial cost (LEDs) is major but the consummated current are less, but i have 1900lm for arrive to 2100lm i must add 1 LEDs that cost 8,99€ and if i put the Lense, i must add 1 * 2€ = 2€ of lense. TOTAL 99€ + 1 LENSE 2€ . But i consume only 13.60 W.

 

Using the rapport of 1 withe LEDs and 1 royalblu LEDs, Fore the Solution 2-3 i must add other constant current for the consequent major number of the blu LEDs .

 

If the characteristics of color is egual, and i suppose that the consumated current between white LEDs e blue LEDs, of egual brand, is the same i have that:

 

Solution 1 (k2) = 74 W initial cost is 79.50 €

Solution 2 (Rebel) = 30W but initial cost is 116.46 €

Solution 3 (CREE) = 27 W but initial cost is 101 €

 

What do you think ? Can you help me to the right choose ?

 

THANKS A LOT.

 

Bye

[evilc66]

Your power numbers aren't right (where did you get them from?). All those LEDs when driven at the same current will have about the same wattage (watts = volts x current). All of those LEDs will have about the same light output at the same current. All of them will give you about the same overall performance in the long run. Go with the LED that is readily available to you, cost effective, and has the best selection of support components (like lenses, comes mounted, etc...).

 

There are some advantages to certain LEDs though. The XR-E and K2 can both be driven at higher currents if need be than the Rebel. The XR-E and Rebel runs a little cooler at the same drive current than the K2. The XR-E series also has a higher output royal blue than the Luxeon LEDs.

[lukeluke]

Your power numbers aren't right (where did you get them from?). All those LEDs when driven at the same current will have about the same wattage (watts = volts x current). All of those LEDs will have about the same light output at the same current. All of them will give you about the same overall performance in the long run. Go with the LED that is readily available to you, cost effective, and has the best selection of support components (like lenses, comes mounted, etc...).

 

There are some advantages to certain LEDs though. The XR-E and K2 can both be driven at higher currents if need be than the Rebel. The XR-E and Rebel runs a little cooler at the same drive current than the K2. The XR-E series also has a higher output royal blue than the Luxeon LEDs.

 

I found this data on the techincal information of the LEDs on the site of the seller.

 

What do you think if buy the lenses at 45° for concentrate the light ? My SPS will receive more light . No ?

 

THANKS A LOT

 

Bye

[evilc66]

Using 45 degree optics will raise the light, but reduce the coverage. It will give your sps more light, but possibly to the point of too much considering how shallow your tank is. It will also be far too much for any other type of coral. Things will die fast unless you can dim the array, but that defeats the purpose of using the optics. For a tank your size, there is no good reason for using any type of optic.

[lukeluke]

Hello, i found this LED CREE in discount:

 

12 x Cree XR-E R2 (WG) Emitter on Premium Star link : http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15943

12 x Blue CREE LED Emitter (20mm 3.2~3.4V) link: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1775

 

Ship free in worlwide.

 

grand total: $104.38

 

With the actual change it cost to me € 72.57 .

 

What do you think ? I read that the CREE R2 is better then the Luxeon K2......

 

I use 1:1 realtionship between light blu e white ?

 

THANKS A LOT

 

Bye