2 Gallon Vase Reef

[BGJ223]

Howdy folks. I have been a long time lurker and have finally decided to post.

 

Here is my 2 gallon vase pico. DIY LED light with 2 Cree XP-G Leds and 1 Royal Blue LED. An air pump with air stone is being used for circulation.

 

[brandon429]

looks great!! that is a nice start, its very clean

 

is it hard to prevent salt creep?

 

wheres the heater!

[BGJ223]

looks great!! that is a nice start, its very clean

 

is it hard to prevent salt creep?

 

wheres the heater!

 

Thank you!

 

Not sure about the Salt Creep yet, This thing has only been up for a few days now.

 

Heater? Not really worried about it right now. I might consider a heater in the winter, but my place stays in the 70's pretty much year round.

 

looks great!! that is a nice start, its very clean

 

is it hard to prevent salt creep?

 

wheres the heater!

 

 

I should be asking you about preventing salt creep, you were my inspiration for this vase. How do you deal with salt creep?

[BGJ223]

I am not the biggest fan of the color of the light right now, I think I might add a couple more Royal Blue LEDs to the series.

[.Newman.]

2:3 W:B would look decent. good looking vase tank. i have a vase just like that sitting in my basement (i attempted FW planted with it a while ago lol)

How do you feel about that coarse substrate?

[BGJ223]

2:3 W:B would look decent. good looking vase tank. i have a vase just like that sitting in my basement (i attempted FW planted with it a while ago lol)

How do you feel about that coarse substrate?

 

 

I was thinking maybe 2:3 also.

I wanted to go with the crushed coral to allow for more bacteria colonization. Hopefully I am on the right path with this, time will tell.

This is pretty funny, I got my reef vase idea from Brandon, and I got my planted bowl idea from you.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-...67-im-back.html

[brandon429]

me and newman are tag teamerslol Im glad you tried it, these variances have pros and cons to the boring original design that is so boring without a fish heh

 

 

The bacterial colonization isn't critical for the sandbed, its incidental. he's meaning that crushed coral sb will catch and hold waste above all other grain sizes...its not impossible to work with but its the hardest. any grain of waste or uneaten food will land in there and be unable to be removed (but not totally, there's a trick)

 

this will not matter for the first several months, only as a cumulative effect. regular blast cleaning can offset it.

 

For the ######, my vase is a lil different, as a lid rests on the inner diameter of the vase neck and directs splash back down inside the bowl. your bowl will reveal its characters in the coming weeks and salt creep won't be too evil. for bowls with nonstandard lid fits, you just lower the water line if the salt creep is bad.

 

blast cleanings...when you start to notice detritus, waste/feed in the top couple inches of the bowl, you take the bowl and set it in a sink and strongly pour 20 gallons of saltwater through it. or 10 gallons...the more the better. whatever will eject all the waste out of that bed before its starts to decay, by the 5th month usually in this size pico. you will be flushing the sandbed to prevent nutrient sinking

 

smaller grain size sandbeds select for keeping the waste totally on top, or at least in the extreme upper layers where the same activity is much more effective.

 

proactive vs reactive water changes will be your biggest challenge, the risk is to leave the vase alone because it will run so well up through Christmas this year. planning for past that time, and taking action now, will be the hardest thing to make yourself do.

 

for the vase to run right, the temps have to be in between 78 and 80 at all times, Ive never seen a pico live past a few weeks without a heater so I recommend you get one quickly, this baby is going to cost you $$ dearly and no heater equals no pico, for sure it needs one. You will either have a metabolism so low corals won't grow, or the heat will spike above 80 this summer because you are keeping the room warmer to compensate for temps less than 78. temps are critical

 

other than that its a fine setup with a lot of potential. the rocks you've bought are clean and have no bad algae, we want to keep it that way.

 

Later tonite at home I'll link you up some previous reefbowls from others so you can see how they fared

ps newmans planted tanks are sick Im copying his the internet is a wonderful zone~ I will steal his shrimp from him one day.

B

 

nr.com can't process the word salt creep as one word, it thinks its a cussword lol so #########= salt creep without a space!

[BGJ223]

me and newman are tag teamers lol Im glad you tried it, these variances have pros and cons to the boring original design that is so boring without a fish heh

 

 

The bacterial colonization isn't critical for the sandbed, its incidental. he's meaning that crushed coral sb will catch and hold waste above all other grain sizes...its not impossible to work with but its the hardest. any grain of waste or uneaten food will land in there and be unable to be removed (but not totally, there's a trick)

 

this will not matter for the first several months, only as a cumulative effect. regular blast cleaning can offset it.

 

For the ######, my vase is a lil different, as a lid rests on the inner diameter of the vase neck and directs splash back down inside the bowl. your bowl will reveal its characters in the coming weeks and salt creep won't be too evil. for bowls with nonstandard lid fits, you just lower the water line if the salt creep is bad.

 

blast cleanings...when you start to notice detritus, waste/feed in the top couple inches of the bowl, you take the bowl and set it in a sink and strongly pour 20 gallons of saltwater through it. or 10 gallons...the more the better. whatever will eject all the waste out of that bed before its starts to decay, by the 5th month usually in this size pico. you will be flushing the sandbed to prevent nutrient sinking

 

smaller grain size sandbeds select for keeping the waste totally on top, or at least in the extreme upper layers where the same activity is much more effective.

 

proactive vs reactive water changes will be your biggest challenge, the risk is to leave the vase alone because it will run so well up through Christmas this year. planning for past that time, and taking action now, will be the hardest thing to make yourself do.

 

for the vase to run right, the temps have to be in between 78 and 80 at all times, Ive never seen a pico live past a few weeks without a heater so I recommend you get one quickly, this baby is going to cost you $$ dearly and no heater equals no pico, for sure it needs one. You will either have a metabolism so low corals won't grow, or the heat will spike above 80 this summer because you are keeping the room warmer to compensate for temps less than 78. temps are critical

 

other than that its a fine setup with a lot of potential. the rocks you've bought are clean and have no bad algae, we want to keep it that way.

 

Later tonite at home I'll link you up some previous reefbowls from others so you can see how they fared

ps newmans planted tanks are sick Im copying his the internet is a wonderful zone~ I will steal his shrimp from him one day.

B

 

nr.com can't process the word salt creep as one word, it thinks its a cussword lol so #########= salt creep without a space!

 

 

Thank you for the reply. Settling was one of the things that I thought but figure I would be able to manage that during water changes by shooting water through the sand bed. That way I can get more things in suspension and pull them out.

 

My planted bowl is run heaterless and has kept a constant 77 degrees ever since it has been set up. The one concern will be winter time when that are more cold drafts that sweep through. I am sure that the tank won't be without a heater for much longer, but I shouldn't need one for at least another month or so.

[brandon429]

77 will work if you can keep it that way, what a rule breaker this w be. Ive never seen a heaterless pico but if your temps are like that then its one less mechanical device that could one day let you down (stealth heaters = fire for example in recently recalled models)

[BGJ223]

I thought that was supposed to be "Salt Creep" but I wasn't sure.

 

 

 

77 will work if you can keep it that way, what a rule breaker this w be. Ive never seen a heaterless pico but if your temps are like that then its one less mechanical device that could one day let you down (stealth heaters = fire for example in recently recalled models)

 

That was my big concern, I have heard tons of stories about the pico heaters.

Since the pico is in my kitchen and I keep it closed off to the rest of the house. Heat produced by the fridge and stove should help keep the temps spot on. I will just have to keep a close eye on.

[BGJ223]

Since the vase is only a couple days old, do you think I should just replace the crushed coral with sand?

[brandon429]

If there's one thing I have learned its to not limit the advancement of the hobby by trying to make people replicate ten year old experiments. as much as I love the old ways and will never give them up until Im a gray old man there is no evolution without risk and new territory so I say go for it either way.

 

rather than advise against it, its just fun to chat biology and make predictions. if you are going to keep it, your paired feeding/water changes (where you only feed the tank when you are prepared to change some or most of the water) and blast cleanings are certainly the counter because these are two key methods for controlling sandbed penetration/nutrient sinking in the pico reef vs old methods where complete feed/waste cycles range among the sandbed layers (unpaired feeding/export, what 99% of reefers do). I would not use cc, strictly because I know what 3+ year old pico reefs do and there's no way to beat algae with one when its that old, unless the blast cleanings are frequent and harsh (always matching specific grav and temp)

 

pods and live rock life can actually take refuge in the upper layers of a bed like that, providing more housing equals more pods, its not a terrible facet of the tank its just different in terms of how it handles nutrient.

 

for the least work and least effort, it has to be a finer sandbed or even no sandbed but thats just my old boring opinion. Using new variables in pico reefs can cause changes down or up the chain and result in better coral growth, worse coral growth, more tank maintenance or less tank maintenance and each thread benefits other pico reefs as we watch for details. I think CC beds look just wonderful, especially with shells like you have it, I think it looks better than a fine bed grain but for next year's headache there's just different ways of caring for different sand bed designs. Your setup is really well put together its an enjoyment to watch another one go up. A recent TOTM here was a similar vase but it was drilled, you are doing stand alone that's a harder beast.

 

if you do choose to run it CC bed thats fine it can run like that. if you choose to change it, I give you a friendly warning to be careful of various dry sand mixes. in nearly every one of the recent reefbowls people weren't using the sand I know works for a fact and were battling silt all over their reefs so bad they gave up on the bowls. If you do dry sand, rinsing it one thousand million times won't be sufficient enough

 

 

but if you want perfect sand, that will never ever ever let you down or do anything wrong, use this:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=caribsea+ar...x=140&ty=76

[.Newman.]

This is pretty funny, I got my reef vase idea from Brandon, and I got my planted bowl idea from you.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-...67-im-back.html

 

Haha, thats awesome. your bowl looks great, but i advise against keeping an endler in there, or any fish. maybe a tiny species of killi or something.

[brandon429]

newman Im absolutely blown away sideways by crystal red shrimp that's my #1 fw goal!

[.Newman.]

dude, start off with lower grades. i now understand there's a reason they say higher grade is finicky, haha. I bet they will breed better in the winter though, when the temps are cooler. they love cooler water from what i hear.

[BGJ223]

I went out and bought some sand today. It is not argonite nor is it live sand. It is the same sand I have in my nano. Still debating if I want to swap it or not.

 

Newman. The fish has been there since shortly after the tank started, it is a female guppy. The cherries have been in there for about 3 weeks and the crystal shrimp for about 1.5 weeks. If/when the shrimp breed, the guppy is going to go. I am debating if I want to convert the guppy over to saltwater or not.

[.Newman.]

i wouldn't convert it because most fish dont make it since they have been bred for a long time for fresh water only. it looks so much like a male endler (only the shape of the tail suggests its a female). does it have a gonopodium?

[BGJ223]

I have seen people keep them upwards of a year in saltwater. It is either convert him to saltwater or toss her in the pond.

And I have no clue what gonopodium is.

[.Newman.]

take a clear pic of her. basically we are looking for a non-fan shaped bottom fin.

[BGJ223]

Just looked it up. I will inspect her later when I get home.

[.Newman.]

k, its only the coloration (the dot on the body) that makes me believe its a male endler. usually they have the dot nd the two streaks of color on the tail, but a rounded tail is a female thing. the best way to know is what the bottom fin looks like.

[BGJ223]

Based on the anal fin, I think it is a male.

 

Ok I changed out the substrate. Am I happy with it? nope! It is way too fine and I have a feeling it is going to been an issue at water change time.

 

But here is a pic for your viewing pleasure.

[Euphyllia]

I actually like that a lot more than the rubble you had before. Keep it.

[BGJ223]

I actually like that a lot more than the rubble you had before. Keep it.

 

 

Thanks!!

We will see how it goes later this week at water change time.

[brandon429]

its great I would totally change to a black substrate if I could muster the will to do so it looks stunning. I would even scatter a few of the old shells on top just to hold more of it down at water change time and add some curves to the bottom. either way it looks great. now the tank selects to hold whole particles on top, only very tiny tiny particles will work down inside the bed. combined with some aspect of water change each week where the siphon tube exports what little detritus can be found, and the tank stays in balance for years not months.